#jedi philosophjy

[legobiwan]

So i was just daydreaming of SW and fics & i was imagining two characters on opposites sides of light and dark both trying to turn each other bc they think they are right(don’t they all?). But i feel like sidious and maul and plenty of sith knew that they weren’t necessarily the ‘good’ guys, no matter their reason for why they ended up on the dark side. I think sidious knew he wasn’t a good person & was well aware of the ‘bad’ nature of the darkside and how it can corrupt a person entirely 1/

I think dooku was as well even though he thought he was doing the right thing & making change. Even Anakin knew in his own twisted mindset that despite why he turned, he wasn’t on the side of the good guys no matter their reason for why they ended up on the dark side.I think sidious knew he wasn’t a good person&was well aware of the ‘bad’ nature of the darkside and how it can corrupt a person entirely. I think dooku was as well even though he thought he was doing the right thing&making change.2/

But how would you convince someone that turned bc they thought they could keep it controlled. Revan himself turned thinking he could prevent the darkside from corrupting him entirely&we see how that turned out. What about people who just genuinely think that they are more free (they aren’t) on the darkside and just want to BE on the darkside and think that it’s not inherently bad. Bc some sith fics make it sound not that bad but we know that it actually really is very bad by nature ¾

I guess my question is how does someone who thinks they can have everything they want and not loose themselves, who is ruled by the dark side to the point of sith eyes, become convinced that going that far isn’t actually the right path to be on? 4/4 Sorry this is so long

Wow, anon, this is…a complicated question. (And off-topic, but daydreaming about SW fics totally got me through some horrible jobs a few years ago. Star Wars daydreaming ftw.)

For me, it comes down to what your definition of “light” (read, good) is. And I think either side, light or dark, taken too far to one extreme ends up wrapping back to the other, a kind of ouroboros. Too much light, as we saw with the Jedi, can lead to dark consequences. Too much dark, in a weird way, will lead to revolt, to a balancing. 

It’s thermodynamics, taken to a philosophical extent, where your variables seek equilibrium but there is only so much energy to share between them, as it cannot be created nor destroyed. 

But let’s extricate ourselves from such tangled webs, shall we, and take this analysis character by character. 

Sidious: Sidious is an unrepentant, manipulative bastard. I mean, the absolute worst, the whole shebang. I doubt there would be anyone who would have had the ability to pull him into the “Light,” just the ability to thwart his plans. Evil genius, psychopath, bereft of empathy, etc. Let’s just say Rey’s existence, at least from the first generation, was likely not an act of love. 

Dooku: Oh Dooku. My favorite bad guy is a lot more complicated. His motivations were idealistic and to some degree, justified. The Republic and the Jedi were failing certain underrepresented systems, the Republic bloated on corruption and the Jedi more and more backing themselves into a protective corner until they had no room left to move. His execution of the whole thing…well, that’s where his hubris (and nihilism) led him astray. And I still contend we see this darkening of Dooku between AotC and RotS, especially in TCW. The dark side won in Dooku, pulled him under its tide so perhaps by the time of RotS he just wasn’t able to see - or admit - Sidious’s plans for him. 

Now, would Dooku have been redeemed? Yes, but only under circumstances and I would say he would less be redeemed than returned to grey status. 

But what would possibly convince our resident iconoclast to renounce some of his ways? 

Or more, who?

Qui-gon or Obi-wan. Or both. Lineage is so important to Dooku, a man who felt the loss of his family, who felt he was alone in the universe, who, unlike Anakin, went out of his way to avoid close connections, to relieve everything of his past except his title and all the expectations that came with it. I mean, imagine that. You are raised a Jedi, taught to believe attachment is, if not bad, at least problematic. And then you leave that religious order to return to your homeworld where you inherit a title and presumably a million problems and identities and histories that come with said title. And Dooku knows none of these people but to rule them, but he does know the ones he has raised and the ones who they raised. Which leads me to believe that an alive Qui-gon (who, let’s face it, wouldn’t have been 100% light side) and/or a more convinced Obi-wan (who should have listened to Dooku on Geonosis but that is a whole other discussion because that was a Hail Mary by Dooku and the more I think about it, the more I believe it was a ballsy-as-ass move on his part) might have convinced him to realign himself.

Anakin: Ohhhh, Anakin. Anakin, who fell because he felt he had to, in order to save everyone he loved. Anakin, who was burdened with false expectation after a traumatic childhood. Anakin, who made so many bad choices and it’s both his fault and not his fault, a tragic combination of circumstance and proclivity. The thing is, we know Anakin is torn between the light and the dark, even after he turns. Anakin as Vader is kind of like the person who says, “Oh I ate 2 cookies, might as well eat the whole bag because nothing matters.” (Side note, I am a total supporter of eating the whole bag of cookies if that is the heart’s truest desire. Speaking as someone who has downed many bags of cookies in their lifetime.) Anyway, it’s the mindset that’s the problem. And Anakin does redeem himself in the end, when he finds something/someone to fight for and fight against and isn’t that so him, always fighting against something?

Look, dark side characterizations are fun. But there’s always something else behind it, and it is a big deal to abandon your principles, your ideals, your health, your everything to this festering, opaque disease that lives in your deepest gut and at times takes the controls, much to your horror (except if you are Sidious, in which case, the horrible darkness is always at the controls and that is by design). I, personally, like to explore the darker sides of these characters but also the why - what made them fall, why are they hurting, and what is the fallout of their actions?

Yes, it’s easy to hate, to fear - I mean, we see this in the real world on an everyday basis. What’s less easy is to be alone, and I mean truly alone. And I think minus extreme examples like Sidious (who, let’s admit, created clones to cheat death and kept a vast amount of servants so even he was not ever truly alone). If I might get a little existential for a moment, what I like about Jedi philosophy (and in all seriousness, I had a major breakdown about this a few years back and Jedi philosophy, weirdly enough, was a large part in saving my sanity) is that we are never alone, that we are all part of the Force, of life, of the breath and heartbeat of the universe no matter what corporeal form we take or not. The Sith see themselves as alone, but as we can observe, so many of them are motivated by connection, could possibly be spurred to change by connection in the correct circumstances. 

And by this, I don’t mean the Jedi were 100% correct. I feel like the version of the Jedi we got by TCW had been pushed to some extremes due to the Ruusan Reformation (gdi, that had better get recanonized, asap, because it is a pivotal moment and a HUGE explanation of why the Jedi ended up as they were by the time the Prequels rolled around and it makes So Much Sense), the emergence of Dooku, the war, etc.) There is something to be said about the Grey Jedi, not that they necessarily embraced light and dark - but perhaps so - but that they did not fall to one extreme or the other. And this is where I feel Qui-gon succeeded over many other of his peers, despite his myriad of other personality flaws. Possibly this was why he was able to access the Whills and pass on what he had learned, to the point of where we see Yoda in TLJ, who is a lot more philosophical about everything than he had been in life. 

So to answer your question - there is no making someone turn back to the light, as much as there is any way of forcing a sentient being to do anything. Once can only pave the way and forge relationships, and the rest is up to that person. I think a lot of our Sith friends knew they were going down a dark path but also saw no alternative and felt a need to vindicate themselves, to strike out in anger against their circumstances. I get it, I think we all have that urge sometimes. And I suppose the answer might come in having something to fight for as opposed to fight against, as ridiculous as that sounds. 

But then again, I am but a simple lego floating around the internet. :)